At Governor Holden's monthly Pizza and Politics forum Wednesday evening, Ed Martin, the Republican challenging Russ Carnahan next year, and Chris Kelly, a Democratic representative who was elected in Columbia just last year, faced off on the question of term limits.
Kelly spoke first. Because he had previously served in the legislature for twelve years in the eighties and early nineties, he had the historical knowledge to appreciate how the House differs from what it used to be. His main argument was that term limits destroy necessary institutional memory and depth of knowledge. Bitter partisanship fills the gap left by departing long term legislators.
Kelly pointed out that currently, each party caucuses with its members twice a week, and they use those occasions to "throw each other partisan red meat" and "inflame sectarian passion." In the past, he says, representatives had served with each other sometimes for decades. It was harder to characterize someone as a mindless Republican shill if you had been to his daughter's wedding.
And people voted their own conscience instead of lock stepping with their party.
"In the bad ole days before we had term limits, we caucused twice a session because no one in their right mind would go to the caucus and listen to their political party tell them how to vote." Kelly maintained that if the party had tried to tell them how to vote, legislative giants like John Schneider and Wayne Goode would have said something like "'Go to hell. I know what I'm supposed to do. I've been on this issue for many, many years. I understand the issue very well. I've spent my entire adult life studying it, and I'm gonna decide how I'm going to vote based on that store of knowledge.'"
The video clip begins with Kelly describing how much less today's legislators know:
Kelly said that members used to figure that about one fourth of the House were the hard working representatives who got the bulk of the work accomplished. That's still true, he said. Only now that hard working one fourth doesn't have as many tools, as much knowledge, to start with.
Ed Martin, the founder of Term Limits for Missouri, defended term limits. He averred that the current climate is well served by them. For every John Schneider that the legislature loses, it gets other good replacements, and he would rather have fresh faces arriving. Sure, Schneider is gone, but Tim Green and Barbara Fraser served well. Barbara Fraser, in turn, was term limited out, but she served on the St. Louis County Council and will probably run next year for Joan Bray's senate seat.
Martin prefers to lose some experience in favor of those fresh faces. He said that as Matt Blunt's Chief of Staff, he learned who was trustworthy, who told the truth, whether lobbyist or legislator. I'm not sure what his point was: that skill in sorting out the liars from the honest people makes experience in public policy less necessary?
In any case, since we're only now about to lose the first large class of legislators who came in when term limits were imposed, Martin says that we haven't yet seen the full effect of the limits.
As for Kelly's opinion that term limits have contributed to the partisan atmosphere in the House, Martin pointed out that the atmosphere is more bitterly divided than ever at the national level--where there are no term limits. The divisions are everywhere and are simply a product of the times.
He emphasized what we all know, that it's almost impossible to oust an incumbent--as he will be trying to do in his run against Russ Carnahan.
His final point was that term limits remain popular, according to current polls.
Accepting an invitation to debate this topic would have been a no brainer for Ed Martin. It's a way to get his face before the public on a nonpartisan issue. I'll be surprised if, next year, he doesn't remind voters that Russ Carnahan is in office largely because of his family's political status. Martin will characterize himself as an outsider, a fresh face. He insists he won't linger in Congress if he can pull off an upset against Carnahan.
I post his pledge for the record. But I don't expect it to be put to the test with a win next year.
